Beth "Tippy Toes" Lapides

Daniel and Laura talk with vivacious performer, Uncabaret creator producer and writing coach extraodinaire Beth Lapides about the singular comedy of transcendent Judy Toll, and the rare group of comic storytellers including  Merrill Markoe,  Henriette Mantel, Kathy Griffin,  Dana Gould, Bob Odenkirk, Margaret Cho, Julia Sweeney, and Andy Kindler who let it all hang out at Luna Park. And Taylor Negron’s monkey, Joni Mitchell, legendary keyboardist Mitch Kaplan, Beth’s critically acclaimed audio Book, "So You Need To Decide", entomology, de-severing, and the capitulations of the Ottoman empire.

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Laura Kightlinger
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Web: laurakightlinger.com

MUSIC:
Jimmy Harry
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Web: jimmy harry.com

Transcript

0:08

Welcome to what we do. What happened? I'm Laura Kightlinger. And we're. Here with the lovely and talented Beth Lepidus. Yay! The Creator. The Creator of Uncap and many other things. On camera. And cabaret. You're right. You're right. I know it's really hard to connect myself. All I can uncover a. 35 or 30 years. Now it's about 30, I think. I think actually an was probably more than 30 or 25th anniversary show at the Ace was five years ago. Oh, I love that show was probably not. Or it's hard to know where to count from. That's one of the things that I at a certain point I'm like more than 25 just sounds too long, so let's just keep it at 25. Yeah, just be 25 forever. because of the beginning of uncap show. Yes, please. The beginning of Uncap is always hard for me to sort of exactly lock down. It's on cabaret but. Right now. Say okay hi. You people are probably listening from the beginning. And Oh yeah I know. Yeah So it started at the women's building, downtown L.A., which was the home of Judy Chicago's Dinner party. And it was this super cool little art space. And I was getting a show ready to tour. And I, you know, I had done the show before. It's called Global Mania. And it was just like one of those great, great audiences. And then the meet and greet afterwards, I said to them, I time you guys laugh because it wasn't quite as funny as you thought it was. I mean, you know, yeah. Those are like you go, Oh, and they're like, That's hilarious. Yeah. Like, no, it's actually not. Oh, we're women and we're lesbians and we're artists. And if we go to tiny clubs, they just make fun of us. So. Oh. Oh, I'll make you a show to be on homophobic and xenophobic on misogyny as it will be on Cabaret. That was literally how it happened. I don't know where the were. I mean, it wasn't like I was a cabaret girl. Yeah, I don't know the word. It just popped into my head. So I always have felt like, Oh, it was an assignment. And then I did make a show for them there, and I didn't really know what it was. I just was like, Oh, it's nothing different. I was so frustrated. So they were ready for it. And I also had been looking for a different way. I'd been going around the comedy clubs in L.A. going like, There's got to be a better way, there's got to be a better way, you know? Glad the comedy, There's got to be. A better. Oh, yeah, have. Yeah, right. And I kind of figured out what it was. And then here was this audience that was like, ready to go. They were like, we can't go there. We want comedy. I was like, Well, maybe this is part of it. So I brought in a bunch of people. Judy told some one of. Them, notably, I can't remember a lot of other people that were in that first thing, which was just like, Do something that you can't do in the clubs. I think Judy was still even doing Andrea Dice. Clay Honestly. Then we did a few there. They lost their it was very successful, but then they lost their funding, you know, sarcasm or gee, I knew there was something, though. I mean, I knew we I hadn't quite found what it was. So I think of that as like even though was the women's building, I think of it as like the insemination. And I was like, Hmm. And then I was like, There's something here. And I think we've exactly found it. But I feel a lot of energy. Mm hmm. I moved as a highways performance space in Santa monica, and we moved it to a summer or late night summer Saturday night run. That was me, Taylor, Negron and Judy. Oh. Fantastic. Few months. Oh, my God. And, yeah, that's where I feel like was the gestation because a lot of what it was going to be was formed. The storytelling, the intimacy, the personal nature, the fact that, like, it's three things that make you know. That it's, hmm. Somehow cohesive even though it's not like planned out. Exactly. there were some big political ideas. Big ideas, was all these different elements of what would make on Cabaret. And Cabaret were established in this, you know, few months of summer and highways was music a component of those. Shows? No, not at all. Okay. that comes later. Hmm. Yeah. and then I took a break to do the First Lady campaign, to make first Lady an elected position. She's so important. We should get to the latter. But if we're going to elect her, we should get paid her because she's working so hard that we're so hard. Who's your payer? But if we're going to pay her, we should get to pick our lowest picker, those payer this whole campaign. And it was like, you know, maybe the campaign I was, as you know, news. It was a legitimate effort to make the first lady and it like it. Was this intimate effort to bring the idea to life. I mean, I knew I wasn't I wasn't going to actually happen, but it was the Clinton election was right. But also a lot of the first ladies are the ones that bring appeal to it. I mean, even when Robert Kennedy Jr said his wife the personality of the campaign. Yeah. people forget just really fast that Hillary Clinton was so when they were in that whole time, I think more than anyone else had been was such an object. Right. She was a punching bag. She was a joke. You know, just as a before she even tried to get health care for people. Right. So that's interesting that it was like coinciding because she was first lady. Anybody was like this weird beacon, right? Yeah. It was also Hillary and Barbara Bush. I mean, which was such a compare and contrast. Yeah. Barbara wrote that book from the perspective of their dog. Do you remember that? You know. I don't really like military. Oh. Oh, she's. Invading Kuwait and Iraq and shit going. On. And the dog doesn't care, right? I'm guessing he just wants to treat like breakfast. Yeah. Oh, God almighty. So, yeah. So it's a little bit like you should get to pick that person is I also thought if we elected first lady, we have so much broader and more interesting choices of president because single people could run. Yeah, women. Can be president because, you know, a man wouldn't want to be a first lady necessarily. Uh huh. Yeah. And so we can have another person in not sure. Anyway, a lot of sense and I worked it all out, but it was still I had a lot of jokes and punch lines and so it was just to bring it to light. I did go to the Democratic National Convention. Oh, Clinton. One. Yeah. Yeah, Actually, that was it. Yeah, the DNC. I think so. I have to say I left early because it was so alien meeting. I was like, honestly, I don't feel Oh. He smells like hot. Dogs, bro. If you never see that on TV like it's hot, so. Oh. Cause I went as a journalist. Okay, gotcha. But I was talking to people there about it. I'm doing a story for a network that was very first person, you know, It was like first person stories and. That was George Bush. CLINTON Yeah. Perot Right. Right, right. Oh, Perot. Say, I got as many electoral votes as Perot. Ha. Millions less. Ha, ha. Incredible. All right. So, Beth, were you on a ballot or not? No, because it wasn't that thing. No, it was a joke campaign I mean, it was a feminist piece. I mean, more than a political piece was by saying we just take this for granted that this person is going to give up their whole life. Right? We expect her to. Hmm. And it's a real job. We need this person right. Half of the presidency is this other person. And if the president isn't married, you know, it's always been like, well, there's a need. You need somebody that can turn turn the other way When there The husband is fucking an intern. Exactly. Someone has to turn a blind eye. Yes. And that should be you should be paid for that for sure. Did you ever read Molly Ivins? I've read her a little bit. I'm not to quote, but of course, enjoyed her like everyone. Yeah, She to me is like, shined in that era. I know her her career last decades, but her like nineties like Bush into Clinton era. Yeah. She's like stellar. Oh, strong. Yeah. Yeah. She was important. Mary, were you kind of in that? Were you writing that same wave was that yours also, like with the dose of performance behind it. It was all performance. It was barely written. it was a lot of media. There's full page spread and People magazine. Oh, there was, Interview magazine did a big thing. They brought a baby to the photo shoot. And that's adorable. Baby, baby, I don't know that baby. Wow. A live baby. Oh, wow. It's amazing. You know, you're a joke about, you know, Hold my baby. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It was almost like that. That was somebody like, having the ability was on these great photoshoots and style to this one where we had this giant flag that we painted room, you know, Fluorescent rainbow. And I was nude and wrapped in this flag and. Oh, cool. And then I did a lot of TV. I did CNN. I did I okay, so I was invited to Oprah, who wasn't exactly what she is now. Huh? And I had was doing a one person show about this, which is probably the single worst review I've ever gotten was about this show. But I had to say no to Oprah to do this show. Oh, in my mind, I was so naive as a young girl in my mind as like, I've got a live show booked. How can I do Oprah? Your show, the 1990 Theater in Los Angeles, they can't possibly like do Oprah. And I think they have Me was another political comedian. And I was like, I don't know. It's you know, you live and you learn. Yeah, I did say, oh, and oh, there was another factor. Joan Rivers also wanted me and Joan Rivers was wouldn't do it unless it was exclusive. Wait, I. Didn't like about. That. What do you mean? Well, it was like she you can't talk over and. Oh, gotcha. And I was just sorry to back up. I was like, was this for Joan Rivers like, talk to talk show, the daytime or nighttime? daytime camp going, Sorry. I'm pretty sure. Yeah, I don't know. Because I didn't do it. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I got bombed. From that and I said no to Oprah, too, to. Shut the fuck up. Yeah, that's not a Oh. Wait. So. So you didn't do. okay. But I wasn't like, So what I'm telling you is it was a media campaign. It was like that. But also it was a big learning lesson. Navigate, publicity and press and but it still I've you know, CNN is on a radio. Montel Williams. You know what? That's even more sad because seeing Montel Williams never graduated into Oprah League. You know what I mean? So that's what that's what Oprah looked like at the time. Oh, Sally Jessy. Mm hmm. So it was a lot. So I did do some writing. I wrote a piece for The Realist, if you remember Paul Krasner's an amazing paper. He's so important. Mm hmm. I like to say his name because he he really paved the way for a lot of what is modern comedy. And also, I want to back up really fast on the Oprah thing because I feel like her guests were not a lot of and celebrated until she got to a certain like enlightened point. Uh huh It was still very tabloid and those are you know what I mean? Like, you know, you're making. Me feel so good about this. Decision. I'm telling you, because there would have been like it was more of a look at this person as opposed to, like, tell us your story. Yes. Mm hmm. Yes. And so I feel like as opposed to like Joan Rivers would have been, like. Amazing as a comedian. Right. Right. Like that in my brain. That's the choice. Yeah. Thank you. You know what? You've just really helped me. I mean, I really. I mean it, too. She. Yeah, she was more sensational. Like the guy Jerry Springer. Yeah, Jerry Springer. I did just go down a wormhole of watching like Sally Jessy full episodes. She's funny. I like Sally, but they're all like my kid dresses like a freak. Oh. Which is so. Yeah, yeah, but there's so. Much I know. Everything that seems so crazy now You're just like, Yeah, sure. There's a certain look and you hear how old people used to look, you know, like how like grandmothers and like that there was an era where your mom looks like would be young, but it still looks like that. So it's all of those kind of. Mom, you know. Pink hair and like that. So you're 30. Five. Yeah. Ha ha ha. Oh, and the nineties were a real crash of that, you know. And yeah, I love seeing like the Oscars of the eighties or there's like glamorous old movie stars. Yeah. Like young Charlie Sheen. Weird clash of. Well, the nineties it was so but I mean to be kind of you know look back because Cam started at that time. Mm Mm hmm. And then yeah after the first Lady campaign, we went to Luna Park. Yeah, I called and was like, I'm opening a new club. Do you want to do it? And I said, I have to show whatever. I'm looking for a place to do it. And he's like, I don't know, is that going to be funny? Money? No, no. Yeah. It's like, you know, So we booked it for three Sunday nights at this new. I loved Luna Park. It used to be on. I used to be on Robertson. Yeah, right. in that incredible room downstairs. And then we ran every Sunday night for seven years. I mean, from the opening week of that. Club to the closing days. Oh. And, you know, you were there for a lot of it. Yeah. That group. I mean, it was really there. So that's where I think. Want to get back to your original question of like when in the years and how many years usually start counting from Luna Park. But in truth, it did start at the women's building, but it didn't fully become itself. It had a birth period. You know, I see it as like maybe that's like a feminine way of looking at it. But, you know, it's a longer thing, the beginning of something. Right? Right. Yeah. So group that we had, so once in a lifetime, that kind of moment. You know, Laura, Margaret and obviously. Julia. Julia, Judy Tolton and yeah. Patton Oswald Oh, sure. David Cross. Andy Dick before you know Before he was. Uncaged. Oh, I know. Yeah. Rick Overton just on. And on and. On, right? Taylor Story. Oh my gosh. I worked for, you know, Judy Tall and I exchanged vows on the Luna Park stage. Yeah, I miss her. Yeah, I know. Yeah. Yeah. What's a good Taylor? Well, you know, anybody listening? There's a lot of Taylor Negron material up on our Spotify channel. Um, when we did after right after he passed, we did a Taylor Negron album, and we didn't overly clean it up. It was. Mm hmm. It was like, he's so raw, all of it. What? I mean, he was so funny because he'd be raw, but that. Okay, so it was great example telling I run and I love this. Oh, So did you ever hear him tell the, um, the monkey story? Hmm. So he had this story That was monkey story until the thing about cab. Hmm. Who have, you know, get to experience it. Please come so we can close it. We were waiting for you now. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. you know. The one. Rule, people talk about the rule and I did an interview with Bob ODENKIRK recently and he was like, you know, I don't think the rule was ever actually told to me. I understood it to be was people would repeat is you can't repeat material. Mm hmm. But that wasn't 100% the case. The idea was to be in the now and not do your take. Mm hmm. And be storytelling and be personal and just be in the now. Mm hmm. In your current story. And if you had to say something that you had said before. Mm hmm. and the way the back Mike ended up evolving was people would be in new material. I always think of this example. Julia was telling a story about when she was something, she was getting to something else. And she happened to mention when she was 14 and her house burned down and I was like, What? When you were 14 and your house burned down? Yeah. And that became her set. But always that that my right to die. Then Beth has saved many asset from me and camp like I'll just start going off and on. She'll ask a funny question that leads to something really good. And it's like, Well, yeah, well, you know, I think too, if you're on stage and it's new stuff, you're not thinking, Oh, this might not make sense. You know, like there are questions. You always never you never hear your own questions of why you need to talk to people. Right? Right. that being said, Taylor had this story that was like this crazy Marx brother type story where his parents bought him a monkey. It was his uncle from the circus. Vargas Oh, oh. And the monkey came in the house, and it was his cousin. Negras Oh, the monkey was jerking off in the fur coats in the parents bedroom. Well, running up a telephone pole at one point and chasing the monkey. It was really like Three Stooges. Yeah. Then maybe at, like, Luna Park. He tells a story over the course of the years and I'll have, you know, has had numerous residences, about ten residences of 7 to 1 years around Los Angeles. when we were at the block downtown and the beautiful speakeasy room, it was near the end of Taylor's life. Oh, he revisited the story many times, both with us, and he'd written it out and done it in storytelling shows and put one into He was really wanted. This monkey and monkey, that's something. And of course, in comedy, you know, a monkey story is almost archetypal about the monkey. You are talking about yourself. You know, I just think of Dana going, I'm just. A dancer, right? Yeah. Yeah. there's a moment in a story, the last time I heard him tell it, where he says, and then I held the monkey in my arm. And I look deep into the monkeys. Mm hmm. And I knew unconditional love for the first time. Oh, I say. Oh, how that story changed from this three Stooges. Uh huh. To a transcendent religious experience. And that monkey was. Whom you. Know, we also, you know, Big Chuck Negron was in three Dog Night, right? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. You know why they call three Dog Night. And they go. Because that's how cold you could tell it was was by how many dogs you kept in the bed. So. Oh, really cold night. That kind of was great. But. So wait, so did he did the monkey, did he live I mean, did he get to keep the monkey? I don't give a shit about any of it. I just want to know if the monkeys are okay. Can I take. Can I take him home? Where is he? Is he in an old monkey's home. Of the animal? Knickerbocker. I'm going to have to go. Okay. I'm going to take care of the monkey. I'm taking him out of the animal shelter. Amazing. He does have that ark, though. And the pieces are wide. Yeah, Yeah, but he does do that where he has some, like, not every time, but he does have that. Well, as you would have known him later in his career. He's not. I guess I'm saying the way an artist can change that. You know, he didn't have that tenderness when he told that story. Luna Park. It's just like, Yeah, yeah. Gone to that moment. Oh. That is a teaching story that I use with clients because I say, you know, you change and the same story evolves. Mm hmm. It's a different sequence of events, but it is a different story. A song changes meaning. Yeah. 20 years later. When you see a performer sing that one and something that they've been singing a million times and how it feels like it's just completely different to hear Joni Mitchell sing both sides. Oh, that. As an 80 year old. Yeah. I've joining Mitch. Or have you seen okay. I've been to her house a few times. Was my own a cigaret that she left in. Oh. Oh. Okay. Yeah. In the nineties with Henry Rollins and like a poetry tour my friend's of his bottle cap and she carried it in her purse. I'm all about what kind of cigaret. Okay well Oh. Brand. It's an American spirit. Mm hmm. And first we were right into one dinner, Mitch and I, and it was up at Sunset Plaza, in fact, this is tender. I had plans with Taylor that night, and we were invited last minute to have dinner with Joni Mitchell. Mm hmm. I was like, I mean, there's two. I'm sorry. I have to. And he was like, Well, can I come? I was like. You can. I'm near the end of his life. So no. Wow. That's a touchy that's a really touchy thing. Like, who's going to die first? I think it's going to be Joni Mitchell that it's that that question. Oprah or Joan Haim, right? Yeah. Choice. So you need to decide that. But there goes so. But you really can't do a plus one their plus one is. I. Was already. Exactly right. Oh because Mitch knew her he'd worked with her before. Oh. Oh, okay. Invited Mitch and me. Awesome. Yeah. It's your second cousin twice removed. Yeah. Oh, okay. I was invited. I wasn't invited. was too far out in the invitation. Yeah, So, I mean, it was, you know, you can bring Beth or not. You can bring. Something, but he had to ask. You. Course it, you know. And I wish I could of. Sure. So we get there and it's one of those outdoor I can't remember the name of the restaurant but I've been since that was and it's outside so she can smoke. And I'm like. Wow. So I'm going to say ten, maybe 12. And she sits in the middle and I end up being seated. Exactly across, Oh, now, you know, I said to me is when we got out of the car was like, I'm not gonna say anything. Like all I'm going to do is not say anything. That's my entire goal tonight. Mm Ha. Where do you begin? Where do you begin? Yeah. Right. You know, Phoebe Bridgers album, second album was called Punisher, and I didn't actually know the word for it before. She's. Anyway, you don't want to be that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So anyway, Johnny. So dinner chitchat. Then Joni starts telling stories, ask her out. You know, all her songs would indicate, like, an amazing story teller, and she's worked on these stories. I mean, hello? Yeah. She's told this story, so she's telling, and then she's like, Oh, it's too much. And then everybody goes, Oh, ha, yeah, you're so good. Of course, you know. Yeah. quiet and smart, you know, So and at one point in the second story, there's somebody who reaches out his arm to her. And in that point of the story, she reaches out her hand to me and holds my hand. Oh, wow. Looking at me now because of Uncap the Listener. Mm. Professional. Mm hmm. Laughing. And so she's, like, loving it because I'm, like, a professional listener. Mm hmm. And and. And she's telling you the story and the thing, and, ah. And as she gets up to smoke cigarets, she pats me on the back, and she's like, patting me on the head. I'm like, I can't literally stand up. And this is happening at one of the lowest points of my life. Happening in my life. You know, I'm divorcing bankruptcy in literally the whole thing is happening. Mm hmm. Joni Mitchell is patting the hand. I am like, God is telling me that everything is going to work out through Joni Mitchell. She is. She is God right now. Mm hmm. And this great night. And there is a part of it. We're like, her friends are like. But you could be on on a cab and tell stories. Yeah. Huh. That could help you with your book. You know, there's a part of that happening, and I'm trying to not be too pushy about it. Huh? So knowing, like, I could really help her, she keeps saying I can't get my voice in the book. I can't get it right. Well, it could really, really help. And I love her so much and I really could help. And, you know, whatever didn't happen, she was had one night was supposed to come to my cabin, had a stomach ache or. Mm hmm. Anyway, I guess we were okay because we got invited again to and, you know, this time to the little door to the thing. And there was, you know, celebrities and things. And I wasn't sitting there or whatever, and then we got invited again. Oh, another restaurant in Beverly Hills And this one we're all going to go to our house afterwards. Oh, wow. Forehand. No. Okay. but she wants to smoke in the car and she can't smoke in that car that she came in. So she's going to drive with Mitch, huh? Oh. Oh, of course. You know, open the door. She gets in the front seat. She's smoking. Okay. Are you a smoker? Did you ever. Smoke? I did. Ever smoked. But I'm. Okay. I'm guessing. But I love. It. But I'm fine. Yeah. Yeah, We're. Not. Whatever. Who cares? She could do anything. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, right. Naked. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. That's so. Yeah, yeah. What do I have to cancel, right? Yeah. She's not like Sylvester Stallone who shits in tubs at hotel rooms. Yeah, Yeah, we found that out, by the way. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He was at. He was asked not to come back to this hotel because he going to the same, like, five star hotel and shitting in the tub. Okay. Yes. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But you're what you're saying, Beth, is it would be all right with you if Joni Mitchell said I'm going to have to crap in your car. Yeah, go ahead. It would be okay, cause, you know, she'd never say yeah. To go back just really fast. You get invited like the second time and the third time is that even you're like, Now would we say no? Now I'm just like, there's always going to be 20 people there. Yeah, right. So you've been somehow included in in the Fun Posse for a minute. Yeah. Yeah. Laughs. You know, it's not going to be like you're you're never going to. Be coming out in the will. You're not, you know, you're never going to come close but it's like an opportunity to be around something. Yeah, it's a gift. Yeah. You're just going to enjoy this. Right? People live in orbits. Yeah. And you're going to be in the orbit for a while, and you're just. Do you just appreciate it? I did. And so. But she did smoke and ash fell on the seat. I mean fell on the, you know, the carpet. Yeah. And we got back into the car. I didn't know that, but we got back into the car to go home and I saw this ass. We did a touching. Ha ha ha ha. That actually lasted about nine months. Ha ha ha ha. Finally, just like, you know, blew away. But she also left an American spirit pack with one cigaret in it. And I have left on my bureau. Oh, so cigaret and it's a touchdown. But I should have refrained. Really? Yes. Hmm. It's just this like memory, but then it's a yellow act and there is one final and then came New Year's and Mitch was in New York doing his Sandra Bernhard shows and I was had a cold and I was in my place was so cold, freezing cold. And I was like, I'm really feeling I was in a little bit of a pity pool and the phone rang and it was her friend who invited us, Charles and he said, Oh, what are you doing tonight? You want to spend New Year's Eve with me? And Joni was and it was like we went to this beautiful dinner in Beverly Hills, and she literally it was just the three of us. Wow. Literally told me, like, everything. The problem is that I am in the now person doesn't remember, like, historical detail. And I'm like, I'm sitting there literally going like. Ha ha, something she's. Telling her, like, And all I could do is experience it, barely remembering any of it, but having the experience And then we went back to her house and we sang and I made her laugh with singing. And I have to say it really was transformative. And I'm so grateful if Joni maybe were listening. Ha ha. Does she play the piano at home? Or she may. She did it for us. Yeah. Yeah. You did get to play the piano, which, you know, it was beautiful to me. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Not that night, but other. We had gone other nights to her house. Mitch is, by the way, a legendary piano player. And also he's a composer. Correct? Is Mitch. That would be Mitch Kaplan. Okay. he has had such a multi what's the word, multi tracks here? I don't know. Music. All the other areas of music. Uh huh. Multi-Hyphenate Uh huh. Because he's a songwriter. You're gold requisite. Oh. Beth Everyone has gold records and uh huh. Oh yeah. Uh huh. so his songwriter and for years and the publishing deals and you know all that then he has toured with Sandra around Mm. Broadway with her and at TV etc.. We're talking about Sandra Bullock by the way. I know, I know. You like the curator. Do you recognize yourself in that word. Yeah, I. Love that word for on camera to be you know, I do consider myself a producer though. I didn't at the beginning. I do consider a curation what I do. Uh, there's also I mean, you were talking about you have clients now because you're doing coaching. You really work. You don't just book people in on cabaret like you shape your show. Thank you. Mm. That's true. It's true. I really work on it. And I have, you know, from the beginning, developed systems of who would go with who and what kind of, you know, what's too much of something. And I really think about the right and what would be great for a performer, because as a performer, you don't want to perform with the Oh, there have been very few but occasionally on weaknesses like that. Yeah, yeah. You always want everyone to shine as you know exactly themselves. And most times that would be hard to not have because most of the people that, including both of you who we work with, there is no one really like them. I mean, they're so that's what I'm always looking for is the idea of some graphic performer, the person who can't be replicated, the person who nobody's like them. And partly it's so simple is the rhythm of their voice. It's funny, when we were editing audio, there's a lot of audio of on cap, obviously. I'm sure there's been a lot of audio editing. I would be in one room like far away and the audio would be going I could tell who it was just by the vague sound of it. Uh huh, right. The rhythm, right. Just the tonality and the rhythm. And that is so true of stand up, you know, the rhythm is so much the same. And so when people say what's different about it and how they sometimes I say, everybody's in the room rhythm. when did you first Wow. That's a really good. Who introduced us? I think. Henriette. Oh, probably. Or did you introduce me to her? No, it had to be Henriette. Yeah, and I think it was Luna Park, right? Yeah. Pretty early on, right. Julia Sweeney was just here, and it was also a waxing super for Luna Park. Oh, it was a magical room. Partly because, I mean, a few things. There are a few reasons. Well, number one, in the nineties, we didn't have cell phones and everybody could say everything. Oh, yeah, right? Yeah, everything. We name names. You talked about your family in ways that you knew they would never hear of you. I mean, dish the dish. The people who were in the show would talk about other people in the show that they'd broken up and Greg. Oh, God, Yeah. That whole break up. David Cross and Greg Barrett were roommates, too. I mean, it was very like, chatty that way. People would have meetings with executives and name the executive. Do you remember when I put my hand on the ceiling and I cut my hand and it went all the way down my arm, The blood. Oh, okay. But that was fun. Oh, totally. That I just it was it was actually really funny. I mean, I think scary and funny. It was those low ceilings, right? You know, perfect comedy room, the lowest possible. Right. And then also, I always talk about this, the architecture of that venue was that, you know, you went upstairs to get into the dining room and then you would go through the door. So you really were like closed off and you would go down a flight of stairs. We were in like descending into the subconscious of mirror, like your face. Your ego says. Oh, then you. Giant crystal chandelier above your head as if it was heavenly and magical. And then you turned the corner and went down. Mm hmm. And then you remember that people would sit on the stairs like. Oh, sure, yeah. The room would be packed and, you know, people would sit on the stairs you would descend into this, privacy. Mm. This very safe, like basement room. Mom and dad were somewhere else, you know, It was very, very like that. I think cabaret shows are always packed though. I mean I feel like. This is not always really. Well. El CID. Yeah. Yeah. You know, when I see that rooms are going to be filled, I start inviting people because I'd rather have that. But it's nice. And this is funny. Judy told a story which I know you love. Mm hmm. So Judy would come in, and most of the time we were really Luna Park was often turned away. But We ran for seven years. Yeah. And there was a little lull right after Comedy Central did their alternative comedy show, which wasn't on Cabaret, like they wanted to do on Cabaret, but they didn't want me to host. Which was terrible. So I said no. And also maybe instead we're talking about all my decisions and wasn't ever see wasn't right back and forth anyway. But it's okay. I can we talk about that just for one second and. And then. I want to go back to the details. Okay. Yeah, or I don't know if people understand that there are all these crazy decisions that you have to make and some of Your life is a hang on it, but you go back to it all the time. 30 points there are turning points. Yeah, right, Right. It's like 13 years ago when I revisited that decision and I thought, why didn't anyone tell me that I could have solved it? I could have made so much money, I could've just got it done a different show. Mm. Mm hmm. Executive producer. I really was agents. They never. Said that. Uh. That's your ticket. That concept of, like, this is the thing, right? As opposed to it being like a tapestry or something. And you don't think that someone else is just going to go do it. It's your thing. You did it. Yeah, right. But that's comedy Central, too. They're pretty. Bad. And so people were like, Oh, I don't even like alternative comedy. Yeah. We suffered from that right shows. But also then 13 years later, from thinking that I think, Oh, what if I had flaws that it wouldn't still be on CAB and I wouldn't be all the good that it's done since then and all the it wouldn't have the life it had now because it would have become this other thing on TV and I would have gone to something else. And maybe it wasn't a mistake. So, you know, and also, mistakes aren't the worst thing in life. Right? Because a. Mistake, the choice you have to. Make. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if other industries have so many tangents. With so many choices. Oh, right. If you don't do one thing and maybe you know what I mean. I feel like we make so many decisions. I wanted to make it exactly Just because this whole story is so small, you would walk into the room. I want to leave listeners hanging. What was the whole story? They knew. Ha ha. Ha. Walk into the room as you go house to house tonight. Oh, I don't know what you did was a little light. And she goes, Oh, good TV and great show. I always I mean, I always think of that, how we we automatically think, oh, it's better if it's full. But you know, she was right in a lot of. Mm. Smallness can really bring that kind of intimacy as long as you don't put something on the audience, like you've got to carry the weight of the big audience with your smallness. You don't need to pretend to be big. Mm hmm. You know, you are who you are. You. This is who. Shut up. Tonight, just in acceptance and. In more things might come out if you feel like it's very intimate and just a few people, I'm going to go ahead and say, you know, wherever I went, there were. I mean, she was right about that. Yeah, go back to. I just love that you needed some more men that, like small things don't need to be big. Ha ha. Ha. Just come as you are. You need a voice anyway, for. Yeah, but you. So go. Oh, I. Can I have to add on one thing about Judy. This is a something I think of all the time she said that we're always looking for work. And in her case, she said, when I actually get an audition or get a job, you know, doing stand up, I think, okay, I can't wait till this is over. What will I do when this is over? How will I reward myself when this is over? Yeah, you know what? On our we did do Comedy Central special and Andy Dick in one of his great moments in performance. I mean, he did do it. He's an incredible performer. Andy Dick. Yeah, I. Saw him live in or something. He was on a two hour saw Mitzi, which is hysterical. I'm a Texas Christian. Wow. What, 100%. And it was his life, too. Or it was. Wild and wild. he did this one thing on that special that I do think of all the time, which was the idea of getting things behind you. You know, I want to, you know, I have to do my taxes so I get behind me so I can dugong and dyer. Ha ha ha. First grade so I can get it behind me so I can go on. Uh huh. We did the same idea, which is yeah, You know, it's funny, I was thinking about, my father was married to someone else. you know, my mom was his mistress and I was their kid. And when I did see my dad, which wasn't very often, well, first of all, I always ask about my half sisters and brothers, which he didn't want to anything about. And so he'd say, Why can't we just enjoy the time that we have together right now? And I said, okay, when should we start? Well, you know, that's. Interesting, Laura, because in a way, that's almost like gaslighting you with the present, right? It's like, you have every right to want to know your context, right? For context. Sure. And he's saying, Why do you need context? I just need to be here now. And I think there's so many means or tropes of like new ageism that can be used against our mental health. Mm hmm. That's one of them. right. And I think too, it was like, be here now is somebody I don't really know and haven't gotten to know after my whole life, like 17 years. Well, I don't know anything about you. I don't know anything about your, you know, your kids. I don't know anything. I'm just like, okay, I'm just going to try and enjoy whoever you are right now with me. You have time. Yeah. Yeah. will be a thing like I recently saw like, oh, walking on your tiptoes is like an ADHD. Thing is. Oh. And I was like, my nickname as a child. Used to be tippy toes. One. Day because I was constantly walking around on my tiptoes, which is actually, you know, people always make fun of you're always in high heels when he was wearing heavy. But I got used to that feeling, Oh, which is like an ADHD I having. Oh, I had no idea. I have a great memory, number one. But like, I'm very at the old house, which we moved out of in like 80 whatever five. I go with my great grandmother who was born 1895, that old bitch. But she was so concerned with how much I was going on my time. Oh, yes. And I remember there's an orange chairs in the corner. I remember I'm just fucking like two years old, right in the shade. I remember playing with the curtain and tiptoeing around and that was a back of what I wore. And that was the things you were. Going to be told. Oh, is. That the name of this episode? Yeah. That should be back though. Is Producer Thinking Ahead? It absolutely. Did and self-medicate but she. Said that in actually that's probably what became the term light in the loafers. I want his hills on the ground. If not, he's probably going to be gay. I jumped out of a tree with a laugh. It was backwards on my wrist and that did leave me limp. I Oh. My God. Was that meant to be a read me? Oh, I'm super obsessed with Marilyn Monroe's relationship with her acting coach. Oh, it's historically, her legend tells me that she would do take and just turn to a coach instead of the director. Right. Oh. Sort of a thing. But it's like There's a lot of mental situations. I don't know how to attack it, but yeah, that you have to work through when you're working with someone as a coach to see what's interference, what's yeah, part of the mental collaboration of yeah. am not an actor's coach. Just. Right. Mm hmm. I mean, I have had people who act as, you know, part of their, you know, big palate, but nobody is. Once or twice, people have mistakenly called me in as an acting coach. And, I mean, it's not my forte, really. Writing, you know, I have I think that I used to do called Uber Funny or which was kind of very on Cabaret, how to do that kind of comedy. but a lot of it was going to say, is decision making, I did an audio book last year that's called so you need to decide. you like listening to podcasts that you might enjoy. So you need to decide. It was not one of Vulture's best comedy. Amazing. That's great. Said and great storytelling a potentially life changing treasure. Wow, that's amazing. And Beth, These were your tips to other people. No, I had the opportunity to do an original audiobook and what would it be? And then I thought, Well, we're heading into an election season that was like two years ago. And the word decision was. Mm hmm. On the eyes of decision making, that's like, all of life. Right. These eight habits of highly creative people. Decisions, number one. Number one. Right. so the idea of the book was I would talk about my own decisions, tell the stories of my own decisions. But then I interviewed, like 20 people and we talked about their decisions in family. They were. Is it were they excuse me, comics or just just everyday. Comedians? Bob ODENKIRK is in it. Yulia, I don't know why we never connected on it. Um, I'm sorry. I couldn't decide. I know. Margaret is in it. You. Know, but also, like Phoebe Bridgers is in it, and Scott Frank, who wrote Queen's Gambit is in it, and Isaac Mizrahi and Sandra Bernhard and, you know. Yeah, like so like, there's chapter on work and a chapter on love and a chapter on spirituality, moving and family. Amazing. And you know, it's my story. Quilted in with their stories. So it's like the thing I'm closest to. Maybe this American Life kind of, you know, the way he quotes those stories together. I love that. It's a little bit like. Oh, come. And I do talk a lot about the, um, cabaret story. I it was the first time like I drove in. I was like, how when Cabaret was really my family and the decision not to have children and how that sort of dovetailed into the decision to do on Cabaret like that. Anyway, it really got me thinking about decisions as what is decision making? You know, the word decision comes from a word that means to cut off. And it's a similar word to, like, suicide and homicide. That side part of decide. Mm hmm. Like violence to decision making. Yes. That finality. Yes, and especially in this age where we have to decide so much is part of why we have decision exhaustion, because you're like literally cutting off a possibility. is that a Latin thing? That's a lot. I you know, I'm such a like, etymology or I mean, if I'm thinking about something, I'm just going to etymology icon like morning, noon and night. I love that certain. Look in your heart. That's why you have to look at etymology. The root word goes to the thought. You get. Yeah, it's in. It's woven. In. Yeah. I now I think the word should be discovering that right? This ever. Love that, to summarize. Yeah. Anyway, so that's. Fascinating because, like, what choices did you have to make that weren't like the sleep? Right. Right. I mean, that's also Yeah, that's something that with what we thought would happen. the show's title is isn't necessarily decisions, but it's like, okay, you go into something especially like being a performer and you think Well, this is going to be great. I'll be famous, I'll be rich, I'll be this or that. You know, that's what you think will happen and that's why you go into it. You don't think, Oh, maybe I'll slide along for 40 years and just just be able to pay my rent. You know what I mean? It's not that you don't think that or. Another way that happen, which I, I think for me I thought, you know, we're so driven by the creativity, you know. The need to express myself. Sure. Yeah. That. That would carry it. Mm hmm. I think saying, like, I mean, necessarily ever think about, like, success in terms of finances? When I was a younger person, I never made money decisions. I always was just like, well, you know, just. You just follow. Follow the art. Yeah. Yeah. And it's not I. I've never made money decisions either. And and not until I think I was in a studio apartment eating peanut butter on my 26th birthday today. I think I really need a job. I have. I can't pay. You know, my rent was like I had a rent control place that was, like, $800. And, I mean, I'm sorry, 400 and I couldn't afford that. But anyway, but. Then it was interesting and uncanny for me watching, you know, there were so many people becoming wildly successful. Hmm. I mean, to watch Kathy Griffin launch out of in and Bob and David and this, I mean, yeah, so successful. I mean, a lot of people were successful coming in. Mm hmm. Bob talks in the book about the decision to leave Saturday Night Live and come to L.A. with nothing. Oh, it is a great story. And how he made that decision super compelling it was really hard for me as host of this thing I never really thought, like, Oh, what is the financial model of that? I mean, even now, like, every is like, I'm very grateful it's in the black. Mm hmm. But it's not like a financially great decision for me. Mm hmm. And I need everybody I love. You know, it's. It's nurturing. And You're great. You are a very spiritual person because, like, not a grudge holder, because you could have been angry about Janine doing the unkempt thing. The show. I wasn't angry, but I was. upset. Yeah. I wasn't like, oh, yeah, sure. Whatever. Yeah. I, I, I was so naive though, that I literally picked up the phone and, you know, it was like sobbing and calling her. I'm like, How did you. She was like, It's not an account. It's like the A-list. She believed, you know? Yeah. at this point, you know, Jenny and I have talked, and it's all fine. Mm hmm. Everything unfolds and perfect. And if. Her. And I am there now, and I do believe that, but It wasn't that I was mad at her. Mm hmm. Even then, I don't. I really talk about this, and you guys are getting the. You know, I was raw. I was, confused. Mm hmm. I did feel betrayed. Not. I just felt betrayed that people were doing. Mm hmm. And everybody. It was like I didn't. I did not do it. Laura. I'd stick with the originals. You know? And it was her. It was hurtful. But then also, I think more it was to myself. Mm hmm. Most of the feeling was like, Why can't I figure out a way to. And not just that show, like, the whole thing? Mm hmm. Like, found ways to, like, become a successful comedian or have a TV show or a beer. Mm hmm. All the ways the people were watching out of it. And I was still just doing it. I did finally have that radio show, which was an amazing job. Right. And lasted only for a year. And then I was talking and then no momentum had so much for one year. And then it was like, you know what? But there is a real in moments like that, especially when like project oriented, right? Because you can be super involved in something and then the whole thing can move on without you. And you're like there's this weird guilt, there's betrayal, there's what did I do wrong? And they're all these weird things, and none of those are really the answer. Mm hmm. So through this fucking head game. I mean, you keep given the same problem until you understand what you need to learn. Yeah. Mm hmm. You know, if you come to any experience with which I didn't when I was that age. Mm hmm. You know, not always. Immediately come to every experience with some being done to me, but being done for me. Oh. Then everything's everything is unfolding in divine in perfect order, because everything is there. I mean, I am such a, like, good girl. Like you are like to be. I mean, you know, I went from bad girl years and, you know, all my years, but in the end, I do like an assignment. Mm hmm. Were you? You must. You're Beth Miller. And Cav is very. There's no assignment. But there is an assignment. Yeah. There's order to it. Yeah. Yeah, but. I've, like, read Yeah. And I ask everyone what they were like in high school Were you the president of of of groups and stuff in high school. I mean were you kind of like a leader in high school or unpopular or popular? Okay. High school. Um, I went to a real small school. Mm hmm. Was the. I don't know what we called it. President had in charge of the only person who cared. Mm hmm. Of the film club. Oh, I made, like, silkscreened little film club, membership card. And I was, like, in New Haven, Connecticut. Well, the school was having, but New Haven. Wow. And I got really close to my film teacher who also turned out to be the first person I knew who died of AIDS. So sad. Richard Newman's, uh, gift. And I won the writing prize. Oh, or it was a small school. Mm hmm. Was. Look, you were at home just sat. You were at home. You were homeschooled. And. And I read this thing where this kid didn't graduate from home school, and it's like, why did you not make it to the living room? Yeah. Julia, how did you get. Did you sleep through graduation? Yeah. No, I'm sorry. No, it. Was. I think I was a rebel. Mm hmm. There was a prom. I didn't go. There was. I don't know already. Yeah, was a small enough school that being that person didn't turn you into an outsider. So that's what I was. What was your film interest at such a young age? We didn't have it. Now everything's available, right? Yeah, right, right. Right. But in those days, there was like, a film catalog. Sure. Yeah. And you look through it and you decide what movie to order. Oh, and you? The movie. Like, literally, they'd send you the canister. Oh, that's awesome. The little, you know, in the little room for the 20 people in your school. Who cares? Mm hmm. On the projector and you screen the movie. And also, my English teacher, Jane Cowan, was teaching us incredible books. I mean, we were reading Joan Didion. I mean, we were reading all sorts of books that were like, I remember reading Gertrude Stein in high school. Mm hmm. And it was three lines, and it was like a weekend assignment. Mm hmm. And I remember reading Gertrude Stein and going like, Oh, my God. Finally, somebody who writes the way I think. Oh. Mm hmm. Oh, this is. She's, like, the best writer in the whole world. Uh huh. The easiest thing for me to read, I'm, like, whipping through it. Like it's a bitch. Yeah, I go and I didn't talk to anybody that weekend. I don't know why, and it just didn't end up talking to anybody about it. And I go, and I'm. I get like. So I'm saying, like, can you believe like. Yeah, I. Have like. Yeah. You know, And I'm like, I been one of my first moments of realizing like, oh, you're different even amongst this. Like it's, you know, chosen group via my really, you know Yeah. These people of learned ness. Uh huh. Or you know. I think the road is the only thing I've ever read in a day. And because of so depressing, I couldn't put it down. Cormac McCarthy was very small. Yeah. Yeah. What brought you to L.A. Well, Connecticut to Brown. Okay. Brown. Back to then. To New York. I always knew I was going to go to New York. Mm hmm. From the time I was told my dad worked in New York, he commuted some. And, you know, I spent time in New York as a child, and I was always, like, obviously swerved along. I mean, what I was like in high school was really counting the days. Oh, I was just like, like, can I go? Can I go now? Kind of going now. You're not going. To get to watch. Anything. Just everything. I felt that way, too. I want to get out of here. I want to get out of here. I was just Texas. Oh. Oh, yeah. Well, I knew I wanted to get out to New York, but it wasn't definitely a big. Like. Where did you live in New York? Well, first I lived in Williamsburg. Uh huh. I was one of the pioneers of that neighborhood. Sure. I lived across the street from the diner that then was the diner in 94. Girls. I'm sorry. I know. So it was like, a very early loft experience, but I was. You know, one of the stories in my life is, like you had little to fear. Oh, yeah. My time now. Right, Right. There was, like, Williamsburg was, like, literally. I moved to New York the day of the loft. Loft in downtown Manhattan was like, Oh, I'm sorry. I rented the last one out. Yeah. So, you know, you start looking in Williamsburg, just across the bridge. It's just oppressive, just with one stop across, and you're like, I guess. Yeah. And we got this loft as somebody I had gone to school with, and it was in the medical offices of, Oh, I forget the company anyway. Anyway, we did the loft. I didn't know how to build a thing. We learned how to build walls, and. Wow. I mean, I know how to go well, but, I mean, I did learn. It was a it was a thing. It was kind of amazing. And Robert Hall, that was the name of the company. And the jingle on the radio was when the prices go up, up, up, and the value goes down, down, down. Robert Hall Well, I saw. What it was a clothing store. Was, it was a factory. It was. Because that was the upscale small store in my hometown was called Robert. Hall. Oh yeah. Well, this was the factory that made those clothes. Wow. Wow. How close? It was close. And it's amazing. It was like, you know, six floors of empty, like, loft space. Amazing. Next to it, attached to it Oh, geez. There was a bank on the front floor, and then there were three floors up and we lived on the floor. That was the medical offices to Robert Hall. So it was kind of nice already. It was a loft, but it wasn't, like, completely raw. Mm hmm. There was a bathroom ready and then, you know, but we got to go into the empty warehouse. Oh, wow. To scavenge material. Oh. Drunk guys who were the leg maintenance guys for the building? I wish I remember their names, Willy. And something. Hmm. And they had an office in the basement, and they were always drunk, and they would, you know, get well, We would go down and they loved us. And then we know. Can we go look at someone like. Oh, sure. And they take us up to the third floor. We get mirrors. And would We take tables that were like their production tables and take hammers and like, take them apart and then go into the loft and use that would wow. Loft beds. And so how So it was really fun. But then all of a sudden I was like, I hate living in Williamsburg. I want to live here. Oh, I want to get on the subway. I want to get into you know, I just I need to be in Manhattan, right? So I just got this thing. I want to get out. I want to get out. Yeah. You know, I have to say, if you want to talk about, you know, one of the things of being an addict, you got to get out. I got to get out of my comfortable. I got to get out. Yeah. So it has its good part and also the part that I've had to look at and get comfortable with being uncomfortable. But in this case I had to get out and I just walked to Manhattan and I walked in and finally I found this apartment that was a little bigger than this room. but it was in LA, literally. It was on Mulberry. Oh, incredible. And Prince Amazing. I know that area. Some beautiful. One. Right angle in the hold, right? Yeah. Uh huh. No water came off in the white strategy. I mean, it was like, well, my parents came to see it. They were like, well, there's only one sink. And I was like, well, only one person ha, right there. And I'm an 86. so it was in a building that had a candy store. There was three candy bars in the oh candy store, and it was called Lucy's candy store and there was a Lucy and she was this large classic telling room in my memory she's knitting. Maybe she was sewing, maybe shoes. Anyway, my parents came to visit and I introduced her. It was like that, you know, you had to know everybody. And I got in, jumped in, and, Lucy said to my friends, Don't you worry, we're keeping our. Eye on her. Oh, ha ha, That's great. So many great stories. And we really wanted to live in Little Italy. I remember walking into the social club and, you know, it's all these old guys and I don't think you're supposed to walk in as a woman at all. And I wanted and there's a drinking espresso, the vessels person in the world. And I walk in, I'm like, Hey, guys, do you know how any apartments And they all put their hand in their pockets, like, who is this? Oh, wow. So a funny. Little hazy glow around this time in my life because it was early downtown New York performance art world, the kitchen and, uh, this and Club 57 and, you know, just it was the years. Before the gods were really well known. You know. On the street. Was that any time of the night I had, you know, I could go up on my roof and spy on hook up boyfriend men. I mean, it was all like it was there was a corner bar for the Spring Street Lounge. Oh. Like all our it was mafia during the day. And then artists that night it was the coolest bar and. I'm very East Coast. I know, I know. But now I do feel like I'm in New York. Very L.A.. Yeah, I. Do, too. Well, because East Coast. I mean, New York isn't New York anymore. Not like it was then. LA is always awful, So it's always going to be, you know, I mean, like, it never changes. It must feel like water. Like I could go anywhere. Mm hmm. Glass. Mm. Though it's not true. Know, Beth. Thank you so much. And tell us where to get the book that you just the things. Yeah. well, first of all, everything can be found I'll get that will be just like on the AP I.D.s. Some of the audio book is available everywhere. That audio books are Amazon, audible there's places where you independent bookstores you can get audio books do even your library has it. So it's everywhere, which is great. And the, um, cabaret. Hmm. If you're in Los Angeles, we're running currently out of You may be listening to this in 2009. One 2023. Ha ha ha. We're running at El CID in Silver Lake, and in December we're going to start doing shows at the Nimoy, which is Cap UCLA new venue. And it's so. Wow. the new move or like a one off. No, we're going to do a series one in December. Maybe it'll do January through January. December 16th is an on holiday show. In January, we're going to do my birthday. Yay, February. We're going to be LCD again. March. We're going to do both El CID and we'll see where people are coming and where the energy is going. Now, we put a pause in the Zoom shows, though. There are some up on our YouTube channel because it's just a little too much. Yeah, but we will probably do seasonal zoom shows again and those are super fun. They're just chat, They're more like this. I'm on stage, it's back and forth talk. You can also find a bunch of recorded stuff. I mean, our Comedy Central show, if somebody put a, the Comedy Central show up on YouTube. I don't know. I think the guy goes, Oh, And then my coaching is a company called The Infinite Creator, it's a place where you basically we take your piles of papers, turn them into projects and get projects out into the world. It's very much 100% process, 100% product. MM Possible. But that is and I just love working with creatives and you can find all that information also on my website. It's a very, well if you're looking for somebody, if you don't want to do it alone anymore Fantastic. I love that. That's so good. Thank you, Beth. Thanks for being with us. I Yeah. Bye bye.